Posts by King Solomon

135

Why get "personal" when discussing a topic?

by Terry in

jw
friends

trading insults happens among kids all the time.. intellectual development hasn't progressed to the point where they can present contrary ideas and opinions with persuasive appeal to reasons, facts and logic.. "i know you are; but what am i?".

"your momma's so fat....".

so, they fall back on childish mocking, provocation and personal attack.. as we grow older and have more education and sophistication our minds should mature---or so you'd think!.

King Solomon

It is a hostile act to call people out. It tampers with their privacy and their right to pursuit of happiness in the Constitutional sense. This is why laws are being enacted and enforced.

Except people don't enjoy the same expectation to privacy when in public vs when they're sitting inside their home, on private property. Most web-based forums generally ARE legally considered as being public forums, and some websites have even been ruled as "public accommodations" (like hotels, etc), and hence subject to ADA requirements for non-discrimination, etc. Point being, public accommodations are expected to not restrict free speech (that doesn't include the obvious abuses given, eg shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre, etc).

Other 4th Amendment (free speech) rights are at play, as well: some people wish to lob their volleys at others, and then duck for cover, after their feelings get hurt. However, free speech means not just the freedom to spiel your message, but the freedom of others to disagree (which is also something JWs HATE: they'll go to court to fight for the organization's rights to do the preaching work, but conversely deny their MEMBERS of the right to their free speech).

But the fact remains that many public forums ARE considered private property, and all users agree to the particular rules when signing up (and posting rules are right below, in the posting guidelines). I've moderated forums with thousands of members (a forum of DRUMMERS, who actually were remarkably well-behaved and self-regulating, for the most part), and the fact is you play by the owners' rules at the risk of getting warned and/or booted. Their house, their rules.

47

Was Any Part of it Real?

by Big Tex in

jw
friends

i'm sort of following a stream of consciousness so bear with me.

i was flipping around on tv and ran across an old movie.

a couple had a one night stand and when she realized he had just used her she was shocked and told him he had said he loved her.

King Solomon

" The relationship itself was built on a flawed premise so in the end you let it go and move on."

All the more ironic, since they warn of the dangers of building houses on foundations that aren't firm...

But yeah, people need to remember that true friends are different from family, work friends, religious friends, etc. Anytime power and control enters into the picture, things can get confusing.

13

Fallacies

by turtleturtle in

King Solomon

Delete

13

Fallacies

by turtleturtle in

King Solomon

The thing to remember is these are potential fallacies, eg a statement may be made using an 'appeal to authority' but that's not proof that it IS false. It's a reminder to verify if the claim is not misrepresented, the credentials of the expert, etc

That's one that is commonly used by WT, where they take a famous evolutionists' words and try to distort them to suggest he doesn't believe in evo.

43

Will we ever see another Ray Franz?

by Emery in

jw
friends

will we ever see another governing body member leave the organization like ray franz did and speak out against them?.

one can only imagine the kind of dirt that's been concealed behind those gb sessions since the 1980's.. what are your thoughts?.

King Solomon

Having been out in the "Real World" (unlike anyone sheltered within the glorified world of Bethel), I have been exposed to a breadth of experiences of the ways of men, some inspiring, and some, well treacherous and deceitful (heck, I served in the military, went to college and became a doc, and practiced in a prison amongst other locations: you learn alot of humans if you actually get "in the trenches" with them).

Thing I've found to be true of ALL MEN is that the hardest thing to get a man to accept is that which threatens their livelihood, and hence threatens them and their families ability to survive without changing. Converse of that is, people will deny much just to go along and get along, evening doing so to the inevitable. Heck, look how long everyone denied the CDO/mortgage meltdown until when they absolutely no longer couldn't!

Ray didn't fully accept the nature of Borg's lie until AFTER he was kicked out of the Garden, and forced to find another means of survival: that tends to wake people up...

135

Why get "personal" when discussing a topic?

by Terry in

jw
friends

trading insults happens among kids all the time.. intellectual development hasn't progressed to the point where they can present contrary ideas and opinions with persuasive appeal to reasons, facts and logic.. "i know you are; but what am i?".

"your momma's so fat....".

so, they fall back on childish mocking, provocation and personal attack.. as we grow older and have more education and sophistication our minds should mature---or so you'd think!.

King Solomon

FUD = Fear, uncertainty, distortion, i.e. propagating lies, or exaggerating fears and doubts, so as to push one's own agenda (e.g. the JW's Chicken-Little perma-message of, "The Sky is Falling! The End is Near").

135

Why get "personal" when discussing a topic?

by Terry in

jw
friends

trading insults happens among kids all the time.. intellectual development hasn't progressed to the point where they can present contrary ideas and opinions with persuasive appeal to reasons, facts and logic.. "i know you are; but what am i?".

"your momma's so fat....".

so, they fall back on childish mocking, provocation and personal attack.. as we grow older and have more education and sophistication our minds should mature---or so you'd think!.

King Solomon

Ehhh, I've always viewed it from the debating standpoint in that anyone who resorts to ad hominems is basically admitting, "that's it, I'm all out of ammo (facts) to back up my viewpoint, so I give up, tap out, and throw in the towel. You win!".

Remember: it's only pixels on the screen, mere electrons that disappear when you unplug the monitor, or click on the 'back' button. Unlike ancient men, someone calling you are arse doesn't magically turn you into an arse (unless you give them the power to make it so). Some people cannot STAND that something unflattering is out there, but that's life: you cannot control EVERYTHING, and most people don't really give a hoot if someone thinks so-and-so is a panzie (where both parties are ANONYMOUS, by the way).

Bottom line is rules to protect the thin-skinned are well and good, and flagrant violators who add NOTHING but insults should be sent on their merry way as trolls, but you DO need to develop a thick-skin and non-fragile ego if you're going to venture out onto the Class 4 rapids of the Internetz! People who need to should wear a helmet on their fragile egos: life is easier and MUCH more enjoyable, if you don't sweat the small stuff.

PS while everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but some people feel they similarly are entitled to their own FACTS! Uh, NO: if you try to mislead others in a public forum, and perpetuate FUD, don't be shocked if someone calls you on your BS.

43

Will we ever see another Ray Franz?

by Emery in

jw
friends

will we ever see another governing body member leave the organization like ray franz did and speak out against them?.

one can only imagine the kind of dirt that's been concealed behind those gb sessions since the 1980's.. what are your thoughts?.

King Solomon

BTW - I agree that King Solomon is too drastic in criticisim of Ray Franz. Would he, or you, or I have had the courage to do any better in Ray's situation?

I never claimed I would (or could), so your words paradoxically prove my point: Ray was JUST a man, NOT divinely-inspired, just another dude. He was no doubt fooled by being raised in the Borg in a time before the prophecies failed to occur, but he eventually woke up (me, I was in my early teens, and saw the 1975 failure: that helps).

Like I always say, it's hard to know what we'd do at another time in history: if I lived in 17th century (ie before Darwin), I'd no doubt be a theist or agnostic, given my commitment to knowledge. There wasn't as much reason NOT to believe in a God, back then.

5

Teddy Roosevelt Confronts the WT Concerning the Higher Ed Policy

by Band on the Run in

the wt policy on higher education was very hard on me.

i made plans to live with a foster family, assuming a judge would grant such an order.. i was cleaning out some books today and came across some thoughts from president roosevelt that sum up the situation very well.. "a muttonhead, after an education at west point - or harvard -- is a muttonhead still.

" perhaps one for the wt.. he played both sides of the street.

King Solomon

Great point about the Kingdom melodies: they, like the reading materials themselves, are pablum: bland, utilitarian, one-size-fits-all-so-do-you-think-you're-special?

No worries about chaos in NSOT: just like how the miraculous events depicted in the Bible are explained away with those 3 easy words ("God did it!"), ALL difficult issues in the NS will be solved by changing the tense, eg "God will do it"! World's energy problems? God will handle it, unlike stoopid (sic) unworthy mortal men, who tried doing it on their own and failed, making such a mess of it that had to step in as if to say, "you're doing it wrong! Stand aside!"). Leave the hounds of Armageddon....

There will be no need for engineers, designers, or any skills except for what is already encouraged: skills like carpenters, plumbers, electricians, etc. If you remember, there was a wt many years ago that specifically stated that these trades are GOOD PRACTICE for the skills needed in the New System, so why not learn them now? Oh, lots of clean-up skills needed: I know some JWs who helped clear debris post-Katrina, seeing it as good practice for Post-Armageddon (since the skills of cleaning an empty office don't QUITE simulate that). Bring a Saws-All!

None of which requires critical thinking skills, but just the ability to follow simple, detailed technician-level instructions (the same basic skill needed by enlisted members of the military when entering; the officers and NCOs are the ones who are eventually trained to be the leaders, not the privates).

29

STOP MAKING CRAP UP!

by Sheep2slaughter in

jw
friends

i had to start this thread in light of today's watchtower study.

in paragraph 14,15 they mention the grounds for separation.

no scriptures are sighted but i am well aware of the support they usually use.. i am so sick of the watchtower making crap up!

King Solomon

PSS why the concern for eyes, teeth, etc? The Israelites believed that the reproductive life-source (the ruah) was centered inside the head, and causing damage to the external manifestations of the ruah (e.g. the head, hair, teeth, but also the genitalia, and oddly enough, the knees!) could harm the ruah. Not being blessed with God's superior knowledge of science, they often confused cause-and-effect (although losing one's teeth, it could be argued, made it harder to eat: malnutrition has a negative effect on one's reproductive capabilities).

This is the same reasoning reflected in the prohibition against a woman grabbing a man's genitals in a fight, or the restrictions against eunuchs being allowed to worship in the Temple: they were considered as damaged goods, marked, due to damaged or impaired ruah.